Fusion and invention coupled with creative expression and improvisational spontaneity is how Mo(ve)ment might be described. Mo(ve)ment is collaboration between painter, Tali Farchi and dancer, Benno Hübner. This creative duo based in the Netherlands have brought together the age old art forms of paint and dance through the wonder of modern technology in the form of video projection. They present a very unique artistic conversational nonverbal interaction on stage, often with live music being performed. They have impressed audiences throughout the Netherlands, South Africa and Israel with their unique form of expression.

The story probably sounds a bit too good to be true. It probably is not, “if the build it, they will come.” Maybe more if you think it, it is possible. It has always been said that if you do what you love, you will find a way to make it pay. (Or die trying.) The meeting of Tali and Benno eventually evolved into a melding of loves and passions that almost transcends conventional wisdom. Truth is they thought it and the possibility became reality and now people come to see.

The following is a conversation that Royce had with Tali and Benno in December, 2006

Royce: Mo(ve)ment is very unique and original combination of painting, dance and technology. First off, perhaps you could explain how Mo(ve)ment came to be?

Tali: …about tree years ago I started to get very much into the “moment” catching in my drawings, I walked around with my sketchbook to every place where they had music, dance (still do, by the way). Then, one fine day, I met Benno Hübner. He was my daughter’s and my dance teacher, and as one thing led to another, I ended up asking him to draw his dancing. And I really did mean his dance – more than his actual person. At the time he was, not unlike me, searching for his own style. Like this we continued, every Friday in his studio for the following half year; he danced, I drew. The fast movement of his dance in strokes of colors, lines, moments – to me, it was fascinating. Each of us brought with us our favorite music, and after a few books worth of sketches, we thought it would be interesting to record it. From that came the idea of projecting it – with a beamer. Three years ago, positively no one in Holland owned a beamer. However we did find one in one of the local galleries, and after one afternoon – we knew we had it. It was like love at first sight. And there was this sound, somewhere near my heart – a tiny pain and in that very moment I knew that was it. One month later, we were standing in the local theater festival of Zwolle – our town.

Benno: I myself wouldn't talk about a 'combination' of painting, dance and technology. I consider Mo(ve)ment to be a dialogue between two persons. One of them paints, the other dances and technology makes it possible to have a 'real-time' conversation. Without the video projections I would never be able to react as directly as I do on Tali's paintings.

For me, the meeting between Tali and I is the main thing about how Mo(ve)ment came to be. Our interest in one another’s art; the questions we ask each other; the answers we give. All the ingredients together made it into a performance of fifty minutes. But until now this process still continues. We still have our conversations and discussions. Mo(ve)ment has developed as we have developed as artists as well. In February 2007, we will actually do a remake of the soundtrack of the show. I consider it a work in progress, not by means that it is unfinished... I wouldn't say that. I never like to present art as to be finished. We present time, a day, an hour, a moment... A Mo(ve)ment – moment. And who knows what we will do tomorrow?

 

 

 

R: I realize that Mo(ve)ment is completely improvisational but is there a formula that you follow? Or an order? For example, is the music always what starts out as the driving force and is that what always provides the direction?

T: Well, Mo(ve)ment is improvisational, but all the same within a frame line. We have the music we chose, and the animation intermission, and few more surprises that are projected via a DVD we ourselves composed. This is in fact our guideline. Our story concept is a very simple one. Benno is my model. He is in my workshop, the show itself being my studio. I’m standing there, next to my working table. We let the actual radio tune in, and I switch a few stations. He is standing, moving, and I catch him as a model. Slowly, the show continues, and you see it through the visual artist’s (my) eyes, how she visualizes it. The music changes now; from classic to hip hop, jazz, electro, and Latin.

B: In the beginning the show was completely improvised. We were completely open, fresh and dedicated to the moment. So we never knew in advance how long we would work. It could be fifty minutes but then again it could also be fifteen... When we were asked to perform at the Acco festival in Israel, we felt we needed some structure. So we developed a storyboard and we made a soundtrack. But the storyboard isn't very detailed. It's more a storyline and we still have a lot of space to improvise. Actually what we do is to improvise on some themes we already know in advance. But the outcome will be different from show to show.
R: How important is the type of music to the outcome of the work?

T: Oh! It is very important. Of course, my style, rhythm, colors and mood are all influenced by the music or the lack of it. That right there, is the difference between our show Mo(ve)ment, and the live music painting version of it. It is the same concept, although the sources greatly differ.

B: It depends. In the “original” Mo(ve)ment the music is more “functional.” We use it to introduce a new part in the story and when the song ends, we know that we have to end the specific subject. And of course both Tali and I do go along with the music, but it's not the main thing to go with the music, but to have our dialogue, which has nothing to do with musical expression...

In the past we also worked with live music. For example in “Mo(ve)ment goes African” where we worked with musicians on stage. For this we made the musicians part of our dialogue. We reacted on their music, on their words, on their specific energy. In this the type of music did influence the outcome of our work a lot.

R: Is the music as much a part of the work as the dance and painting?

T: The main ingredients of the show are in fact said dance, sound and painting. Each take their turn and get the chance to lead the show, but eventually – all contribute equally to making the show what it actually is.

R: In your mind what is the art? That is, you have the dance and the painting and the music as components. What in the end what do you consider the piece of art?

T: To begin with, regardless of your question, I just wan to say that to me, art is boundless. I consider art as a very broad notion. Endless. In our case, of Mo(ve)ment or live painting, the final result of the what we do is not necessarily the art we’re aiming at. It’s more in the process, matter of fact; in the moment. The final outcome won’t be as interesting as watching it come to life as it were.

B: What I consider to be the art is the dialogue. Tali and me, we are so different but we can challenge each other and inspire in a way we can't have done all by ourselves...

R: Do you always videotape your performances?

T: Yes. Well – we did, until I took the (extra) camera down with me when I fell from the stage prior to the show two weeks ago. I’m alive; camera is dead. (Although whenever we record our shows, it’s always for personal benefits – to re-watch, learn, make notes, etc.).

B: Not often, but sometimes we do. I personally hate to see myself. I also hate it to see it in “flat.” A video really only shows you one perspective. I also don't see the use of reviewing the show. When I am performing, I am so much into the moment that I can recall every step and every breath. I am so much aware.

But for P.R. and to be able to tell more people about our show it's quite handy if you can show people some video footage. But I always say to them to come and to try to see it live. You will be able to smell it, to touch it, to taste it.... The audience is part of the process, part of the moment.

R: Without a video record of what happened at a performance all that remains in the end is a painting as a record, is that only part of the art?

T: After a show, I am left with a whole sketchbook full (or ten sheets, when it’s an action painting show) of scribbles, paint strokes and lines, and a feeling to last me a lifetime. The recordings are only the visual part of the whole thing – something to look back at later on, but certainly not what it’s all about. Each show differs from its former - no two performances are the same, so it’s truly a ‘spurt of the moment’ kind of show, each time again. And what we make of it during the time we have, is the art, whether it’s recorded or not.

B: As in life you cannot hold a moment. You cannot keep it in your pocket forever to be saved. It's not even about letting go, cause I myself don't even hold the moment for one second. I live it, I dance it, I give everything I have and I go on to the next.

But often I do feel sad. It's when at the end of the show we have to pack our stuff, to break down the venue. It's sad that you're leaving the place where just before you have lived so vividly... But it doesn't take to long.

R: What do you do with the paintings you make on stage?

T: As I mentioned beforehand, the paintings stay in their sketchbooks. In my studio I have a pile of about thirty to forty books, each book consisting out of material worth of two shows. The sheets I usually give to the musicians as a souvenir. And if anyone is interested – the books are up for sale.

R: What types of music have you experimented with?

T: Last year, we had to perform in a prestigious Dutch house-music called Lipgloss. This was, I could say, quite an experience. Not necessarily negative, but certainly something to learn from. All the same – never again.

B: I can't think of a type of music that we haven’t experimented with.

R: Benno - who is the dance component of Mo(ve)ment - obviously reacts to what is happening with the music. How aware is he of the painting and your brush strokes?

T: I think I’ll better pass this one onto Benno himself.

B: I can honestly say I am fully aware. Maybe not of every small line or pencil point. But I do know the direction and more important the dynamic of the movement. I react on dynamic of Tali's hands, her drawings, colors, the character of handwriting, brush strokes, timing. I take all of what I see, hear and feel...

R: Have you ever worked in this manner with multiple dancers?

T: No. Not yet, either way. Although we did once had a special show for a Hair fashion show, and as all the models came on stage I had to draw their movement and outfits, although I don’t think this counts as dance.

R: Isn't education a big part of what Mo(ve)ment is all about? What is your goal when you take your show to group of school age children?

T: I wouldn’t exactly call it education, and I’m not the one to preach, but I am always pleased when able to give something of my own experience to the children. The most important thing for me when I’m doing the show, or am giving a workshop, is that they should know that not always the final result is the most important of things. Experiencing the process can be the fun of it all. Feeling the moment, as it were. I do, however, give the children instructions during the workshops to give them a sense of exploring their capacities. For example, working with both hands – working with their eyes closed, or with arms hooked around their neighbor’s. The big finale with finger paint, allows them to realize that everything is possible.

B: I am a dance teacher, but it never came into my mind that we educate with Mo(ve)ment as a show. Mo(ve)ment is an experience. You can take out of it what you want, you can enjoy, be inspired. But I don't want to teach them anything. Opposite is the workshop. Here I do have my goals. For example: to let them be aware of different dynamics in movement. To dance with the music. To control their bodies. I can give you a whole list and it sometimes depends on the wishes of a specific school.

It's true that we do have a lot of performances for children in schools. But I don't aim to educate. Mo(ve)ment is my work. I made it because I felt I needed to make it. Just like a painter makes his painting, a musician makes a song and I happen to make performances. Nothing more.

R: Does your performance very much when are performing to a crowd that is more filled with adults?

T: Basically, not at all. We treat kids the same as we treat adults. The only small difference is that in the kids’ show, we give some introductions at the beginning about the technical aspects; how the camera is connected to a beamer, and how it’s projecting on the big screen. But the ingredients of the show are the same.

R: During a single musical number you may make several paintings. How do you decide when it is time for a new clean surface?

T: I always try to pay attention to musicians and sense their rhythm, where their “musical sentence” starts and ends. The musicians keep an eye of the screen as well, and like that we complete each other when it comes to the timing. And that is the great thing about improvisation, to be honest. Although it did happen a number of times that I felt the drawing was complete, and the music went on. In that situation I usually switch my attention to the camera, zoom in and out, but I don’t touch the drawing anymore. It’s somewhat easier in the Mo(ve)ment show, because then the music is pre-decided and has an unchanging order.

R: You also paint apart from your work in Mo(ve)ment, tell me how the creative experience is different when you are working alone and not in front of an audience?

T: The only difference is that on stage I can’t change anything – I can’t backscape, in a manner of speaking. The line I draw is there for everyone to see. All the while, there isn’t exactly such a thing as a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ way of creating on stage, but when I am painting without an audience I allow me to correct myself; go over lines, erase, take the time to make it. But the style stays the same, though.

R: You also work in film and animation. How much inspiration for that work to you draw on from what happens in Mo(ve)ment?

T: Mo(ve)ment is, in its essence, live animation. The part of me that is an animator shows very strongly on stage. I also use a piece of animation in the show, matter of fact – one I created especially for Mo(ve)ment. The definition of animation is literally “giving life,” and that’s what I do to the lines I draw.

R: Now, the work you do is so unique, and for most part, because of the video aspect of it, could not have been done in an earlier era very easily. Is there anyone that you look to as a mentor or for inspiration?

T: I don’t really have a mentor of source of inspiration of sorts, but everything around me can inspire. From the small things on street sides, to multimedia concerts. I register everything in my head, and put it to use later on – in the show, in my drawings. I greatly admire the expressionists of the last couple of centuries. Their use of colors, brush stokes, I would definitely say inspired my way of painting.

B: I find inspiration in a lot. Sometimes it's big, most of the times these are small things. I don't have one mentor.

R: As I think about it, maybe you have more in common with a jazz musician say like, Miles Davis, or Sun Ra, than another painter when you are doing Mo(ve)ment. Or do you think of your self as just another dancer?

T: I’m afraid I don’t exactly understand what the question is.

R: I mention jazz musicians, mainly because of their improvisational talents. When you are on stage you are using a paintbrush as a
painter, and you are only a part of the experience that you call
Mo(ve)ment. When you perform do you feel you might relate to jazz
musicians, like Miles Davis or Sun Ra as much as if not more than a
painter like Kandinsky or Pollack?

T: Once I’m on the stage, I relate to everything that is going on: the stage, from my table and drawings to Benno’s dance and the music that is in the air. Jazz is a state of mind according to some. Once I’m into the performance I reach a state of mind that is Jazz.
My interest in catching movement in drawings came forth from my work as an animator. I always tried to catch the movement in drawings projected one after the other, but yet, in still images. From there I moved on to action painting, which is quite different from the way that Jackson Pollack came to his action painting. So you can understand that I was quit surprised and flattered when people compared my work to that of Jackson Pollack.

B: I am just another dancer. Like I consider Miles Davis as just another musician. I don't want to compare, we both are just doing what we feel that needs to be done.
R: Improvisational art must be influenced by so many things that more traditional art forms are not. For example, how important is the audience to what happens in the end?


T: The audience stimulates us. We can sense the audience as well as the audience sense us. In big outdoor festivals, for example the Acco festival or the one in Tel-Aviv, we had about 500 people per show. The way they reacted was so spontaneous, and so directly aimed at a certain drawing or scribble I made, that it just motivated us to give all we had. They were whistling and shouting and clapping the whole time through; it was amazing. Hands down, the best audience we ever had. As for another experience, once we gave a performance at a private party – in a gallery in Delft. Those people were so stony, it was like performing before a wall of ice. After the show they did grant us the customary clapping, some even expressed their appreciation, but until this day I haven’t the faintest as to what was really going through their minds (it could also just be a Dutch thing, though).

R: Have you found that certain materials work better when you are painting on stage under the lights and camera? Do certain types of painting work better?

T: I’ll tell you something: I have found out over the last few years which quarrel colors (watercolors) work best in combination with the lights on my table. I also found out how many different qualities of finger paint exist, and witch suit me best. During the last few performances I couldn’t find my favorite type of sketchbooks. As any painter can tell you; the quality of the paper affects the entire drawing.

I love working with quarrel. I love to see how the paint dissolves in the water, and then, at exactly the right moment add a stroke of black ink. When I do that without camera or lights or audience I usually use a thin type of black pen. I tried that once under the camera and lights. Very soon I found out that that was not the right technique to us under those circumstances. But as I said earlier on in this interview – ‘every performance is one step higher from the previous” - the same goes for the technique and my quality of painting.

R: When did you start using finger paint?

T: When I was two! But no, seriously, I actually do remember the exact date on which we first used the finger painting aspect. The August thirty, 2003. It was a goodbye party for an art teacher in the local arts center, and they invited us as a present for said teacher. There I started to use the paint very modestly, and we didn’t have all the blue-screen gadgets back then. Me myself at start was too shy to really let loose with it, because it was really new and, well – we’ve never done it like that before. But suffice to say that from thereon we evolved quite nicely, and there’s not a trace of shyness left. Even more, I believe that now, it is the most sensual part of the whole show. In some shows, we take it to such levels, that Benno himself uses buckets of paint on stage and paints with his own body on the ground while a camera (hanging above) projects that onto the screen and mashes with my own finger painting as I work on a blue surface that serves a s a blue screen.

R: Do different mediums arouse different reactions from the audience?

T: It’s hard to say, really. Most of the time, people come to us after the show, and their reactions go out to the show as a whole and rarely do they commend only certain parts. Which is the way it should be, really, for singular parts on their own aren’t of much meaning compared to the show as an entity.

R: What is your background and training in art?

T: Officially, I have seven years worth of art academies. The Free Academy in the Hague, and the Rietveld Academy (audiovisual department) in Amsterdam. Although between my graduation and the present day, I received a great part of my education from working, inventing, creating – and everything that comes with. Which means a lot of animation, and movies of all sorts of techniques and media.

B: I did dance academy in Arnhem, the Netherlands. I did classical ballet, modern dance and Flamenco.

R: If you were going to try and push Mo(ve)ment to the next level (if that is possible) what you think about doing?

T: Mo(ve)ment, actually, has no next level – each show, we take it to a next level. We just want to explore it in every possible way – that means geographically as well, especially in the US. If you could help me a hand with that, it would be greatly appreciated! However, we are working on a new show called ‘Socks’, which explores more the dialogue between an actress and visual art. There’s also more digital media, and I as an artist have a visual role in the show as well.

B: In February we will start making our new soundtrack. But mainly we decided not to change to much to the concept. We do ofcourse have a lot new ideas that we will put in our next show to be called: SOCKS! We would love to tell you more in a next interview...

T: Socks is a project we are currently working on. It’s certainly not Mo(ve)ment II, Socks stands on its own. We’re proudly going in premiere ending 2007!



The Kiss - photo by Judy ben Jud

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